March 17, 2011 AD
Muslim Challenge to The Word of Jesus Christ
My Email Conversations
From: Mugz Star
with a Muslim
To: The Christian Solution
Subject: Jesus ordered to kill those who didn't accept him?
Date: Mar 2, 2011 1:50 AM
I know you have been telling me that Islam tells to kill the infidels and we went around in circles on that one. So here's something interesting I found out on Jesus in the Bible. According to your bible!
I was reading Luke and this was what I discovered - Jesus ordered those who didn't accept him to be slayed!!!!
This is Luke Chapter 19 Verse 27 - but UNLIKE YOU ...I at least put the verses in proper context of what Jesus is saying - so you can't accuse me of twisting the verses out of context -
Here is another verse:
The Parable of the Ten Servants
11 And as they were listening to these things, he included and spoke another parable, because he was drawing near to Jerusalem, and they thought that the kingdom of God was about to be appearing shortly.
12 He said therefore, "A certain man well born journeyed off to a far country, to receive for himself a kingdom and then return.
13 Now after calling ten of his servants, he had given to them ten minas, and said to them, 'Do business until such time I return.'
14 "But his subjects hated him, and they sent ambassadors behind him saying, 'We do not want this man to be king over us.'
15 "And it came about that when he returned, he had received the kingship. And he ordered his servants to be summoned to him, those to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had earned.
16 "So the first one came, reporting as follows: 'Lord, your mina has grown to ten minas.'
17 "And he said to him, 'Well done, good servant. Since with a little you have proven faithful, be therefore ruler over ten cities.'
18 "And the second one came, saying, 'Your mina, Lord, has become five minas.'
19 "So he said to that one, 'And you, you shall be over five cities.'
20 "And the other one came, saying as follows: 'Lord, here is your mina, which I have been keeping laid away in a napkin.
21 For I was afraid of you, since you are a demanding man; you collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.'
22 "He says to him, 'By your own mouth I judge you, you wicked servant. You knew, did you, that I am a demanding man, collecting what I did not deposit, and reaping what I did not sow?
23 Why then did you not put my money on the table of the moneychangers, and I having returned would collect it with interest?'
24 And to some standing there he said, 'Take the mina away from him, and give it to the one who has ten minas.'
25 "And they said to him, 'Lord, he has ten minas!'
26 '"I tell you, to everyone who has, it will be given, but the one who has not, even such that he has will be taken away from him.
27 But as for my enemies, those who had not wanted me to be king over them, bring them here, and slay them in front of me.'"
Matt. 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
I know that you will say that I am perhaps mistranslating both verses - however that is simply not the case. I am simply pointing out what the verses state. If you want to challenge the translation - then lets read it in the original languages that the scriptures were written in - either Aramaic, Greek, or Hebrew - and if you can't find the original transcription of above verses, then you really can't refute the translations.
FYI, I do understand some Arabic - I read and write it as well - so I can challenge a translation. Can you do that for the above translations?
My Muslim correspondent had some interesting thoughts but in the end the core summation of his thoughts over all our emails were that...
A) No Muslim has ever harmed anyone, because Muhammad never said to harm anyone, henceforth -- Islam is the Religion of Peace
B) All the harm that has appeared to be caused in the name of Islam was really all caused by Jews
C) Jesus Christ preached to slay the enemies of Jesus
D) Donate money to help me start up a website to get the truth out on the Jews or allow me to place my material on your website
More than once I was accusing him of being a Jew, pretending to be a Muslim, so that he could discredit my website.
But false accusations against Jesus Christ, no matter how outrageous, I cannot let go unanswered.
to the argument that
In the email above, it is interesting that this so-called Muslim adherent believes that including the context surrounding the quote in question proves the quote, when instead it only proves how badly he has misunderstood the quote.
Indeed, he would have been far better off to have just given the quote and stopped there. -- Jesus said, "But as for my enemies, those who had not wanted me to be king over them, bring them here, and slay them in front of me" - Luke, Chapter 19, Verse 27
Jesus was not telling his disciples to go right away, in his name, to round up his enemies and kill them -- he was telling a story about a secular, seemingly non-religious king who was only interested in money. This was a story, a parable, about a king who ordered his unloyal enemies killed. This was not a real life event where Jesus ordered anyone killed.
As in all parables Jesus tells, the parable represents another action or deed related to religion. The King whom Jesus was referring to was the Jewish King Archelaus, who was rejected by his own people to be made king over them. So, this is a parable about the Jews who will refuse Jesus as their Messiah. (If I stopped here, one may believe that Jesus was then "indirectly" telling his followers to kill all the Jews who did not follow him as their Messiah. If you believe this, you would still be wrong.)
The part where the king "journeyed off to a far country, to receive for himself a kingdom and then return" refers to the upcoming crucification of Jesus. The story of Archelaus going to Caesar Augustus to be made king so he can come back to rule his kingdom, equates to the story of the upcoming journey of Jesus leaving Earth to go to his Father where he will be made the king of the Kingdom of Heaven, after which he will return to Earth to rule. Only then will Jesus ask the ones who rejected him to be killed. And I think we may safely be talking about Jesus-denying Jews here. But one thing is clear, Jesus is NOT to be made king of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth until he has completed the journey with his second coming. Without the journey, and without Jesus personally ordering the slaying, then Jesus also commands that no killing is to take place.
Footnotes in the New American Bible
The story about the rejected king may have originated with a contemporary historical event.
After the death of Herod the Great, his son Archelaus traveled to Rome to receive the title of king. A delegation of Jews appeared in Rome before Caesar Augustus to oppose the request of Archelaus. Although not given the title of king, Archelaus was made ruler over Judea and Samaria.
As the story is used in Luke, however, it furnishes a correction to the expectation of the imminent end of the age and of the establishment of the kingdom Jerusalem.
Jesus is not on his way to Jerusalem to receive the kingly power; for that, he must go away and only after returning from the distant country will reward and judgement take place.
And this is the biggest mistake of all. A true context of the statement would compare the quote of Jesus with what Jesus actually did in real life. In real life, he did not kill anyone. Even when his enemies, the Pharisees and high priests, were demanding Rome kill Jesus, Jesus did not offer any resistance, indeed, he commanded his disciples to not fight, even when a self-defensive fight was demanded.
While he was still speaking, a crowd approached and in front was one of the Twelve (Disciples), a man named Judas. He went up to Jesus to kiss him. Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kill?" His disciples realized what was about to happen, and they asked, "Lord, shall we strike with a sword?" And one of them struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. But Jesus said in reply, "Stop, no more of this!" Then he touched the servant's ear and healed him.
And a corollary to Mistake #4, would be to look at the actions of the Christians who have read these words of Christ to see if they go out to find enemies of Jesus and slay them in the name of Christianity. In fact, no Christians I have ever met believes that Jesus wants us to kill in his name.
The Muslim reverse to Mistakes #4 is to witness how Mohammad personally led armies against his enemies. Anyone can read the history of Muhammad to see that he ordered entire villages wiped out in his name, who were not loyal to him. Indeed, the Muslim in the emails acknowledges that Mohammad did these to Jewish villages who were disloyal to him.
The Muslim reverse Mistake #5 is to witness how Muslims behave after reading the Koran. We can leave the argument aside as to whether certain passages of the Koran actually advocate violence or not. The real acid test is to witness how Muslims who read the Koran interpret what is written in the Koran. And the widespread facts are that the screaming of "Allah Akbar" (God is Great) while one is killing non-Muslims is courtroom-safe, prima-facia evidence that Mohammad indeed advocated violence in God's name.
As for his charge below that the Jews are doing false flag operations to make peaceful Muslims look bad. I am not going to disagree that some of that happens, but I am also going to say that the Jews don't have to do most of the damage themselves, because the Jews can get the Muslims to do the damage for them. It is so easy for the Jews to talk the Muslims into a murderous state. (We are no better -- we have just been talked into interfering with Libya's internal affairs.)
I think this last paragraph from my Muslims correspondent pretty much sums up this Muslim's beliefs that all Christians are pawns of the Jews and deserve to die. (Pawns yes, but deserve to die, no.)
It does show the long-term evil intent of Islam - for if he never accomplishes the completion of his invasion of America in his lifetime, then his kids or his grandkids will. This is how the Byzantine Empire was taken down -- bit by bit -- over 800 years -- until Constantinople fell in 1453 AD.
The gist of his desire is that instead of being lorded over by the Jews, I will now be lorded over by the Muslims and most of my family will all be dead.
And how is this good for me?
Email from a "Religion of Peace" Muslim
As for the invasion of America thingy, there are loads of people out there who are anti-American. And they don't have to even be Muslim. I can work with them in bringing in troops to invade and destroy the US. China and the two Koreas and Japan are prime examples. Muslims can't invade America anytime within my lifetime. However there are other countries that have the capability in invading the USA. I don't mind working with them in accomplishing the mission. I think an invasion into the USA will be good for you - it will get rid of the Jews instantly ...and those jarheads that worship the jews which includes a good chunk of your population.
But as for those my enemies, who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither, and kill them before me.
Gospel According to Saint Luke
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